just curious to what type of cardio you guys do? Whats the best cardio without losing much muscle mass??

I personally run. Outside, treadmill....whatever. I don't like all them fancy ellipticals or bikes. Especially in the summer, there is nothing like a 3-mile run first thing early in the morning when it's nice and fresh outside. I wish I could do it more often. To keep your muscles while cutting you need to lift heavy in addition to cardio. It's hard because you don't have much energy but that's how you get to keep it as much as possible.
D

I don't like elliptical machines either but I love a stairmaster, those are the best I think. Course all I've got available now is a treadmill so I use that, does the job.

SR

HIIT, High Intensity Interval Training

its a lot like weight training, you basically do sprints and then rest. when working out you do a set work at high intensity, push as hard as you can, and then rest until you catch your breath. you do this for a couple of sets, i do 6. it lasts 15 minutes, and since your heart rate is elevated you can walk for an extra 10 minutes till your heart rate is back to normal at a steady walking pace, like 3.5 mph on the treadmill. this is really good for maintaining muscle mass, the only reason people lose muscle is because they are on low calories, not getting in enough protein to feed their muscles, as well as when doing cardio, they run for an extended period of time, this causes the muscles to become glycogen depleted and this is when the body loses muscle. so if you are running or doing sprints, have sips of gatorade throughout the workout.

sample routine:

warmup 5 minutes at 3.5 mph heart rate raised from 90 bpm to 125 bpm
then raised to 5 mph for 1 minute
then to 6 mph for 1 minute
then 7 mph for 1 minute
then decreased to 3.5 mph for 1 minute where heart rate was recovering from a high of 168 bpm
then raised to 8 mph for 1 minute
then rest for 1 minute from a max heart rate of 178 bpm
then raised to 9 mph for 1 minute (heart rate was 178 bpm)
then rest for 2 minute again at 3.5 mph
then raised to 10 mph for 1 minute (heart rate was 180 bpm)
then rest and cool down for 10 minutes from 180 bpm to 125 bpm

total cardio length: approx 27-30 minutes

on elliptical you want to rest longer because it burns out your legs:

resistance-1 for 2 minutes heart rate 135 bpm
resistance-14 for 45 seconds heart rate 168 bpm
resistance-1 for 3 minutes heart rate 150 bpm
resistance-10 for 1 minute heart rate 177 bpm
resistance-1 for 3 minutes
resistance-10 for 1 minute heart rate 180 bpm
resistance-1 for 2 minutes heart rate 155 bpm
resistance-10 for 1 minute heart rate 180 bpm
resistance-1 for 5 minutes heart rate decreased to 145 bpm

treadmill walking at 3.5 mph for 5 minutes until heart rate decreased to 130 bpm.

total duration: 23:45

I have been doing 45 min of cardio during the last two weeks and I have lost muscle in the process. My cardio routine was the following:

- 1 min 30 low intensity (6.5 km/h, 10% incline)
- 45 sec high intensity (7.5 km/h, 15% incline)
- 1 min 30 low
and so on and so on until I reached 45 minutes.

I was eating normally which means every 3 hours, high protein diet, low carbs.

What did I do wrong?

it could be a couple of reasons cupcake...like not eating enough calories or protein also combined with not training as hard as before the diet, since theres lesser calories, lesser strength, and you can't do as much weight on the exercises, or not keeping the intensity high enough, even though you are not as strong, add more repititions and partial reps to failure, but this is hard to do while on diet. also not giving your body enough carbs or sugars to restore the glycogen in your muscles....or doing too much cardio for too long of a duration, or doing cardio on an empty stomach in the morning.

if you were not that fat to begin with, and you dont carry a bulk of fat in all your bodyparts, your bodyparts like arms, legs, chest, calves, or whatever should not go down more than an inch..the only thing changing should be your waist. this doesn't apply to clinically obese people, since their arms are mainly fat and is definitely visible that it is not muscle, although there may be some.

[edit]
i did not read your post well enough, since you described your cardio and diet...
i never do incline, so im guessing that 15% is the highest incline there is? if so thats a real high intensity to be going at 4 mph...4 mph is right at the point where you are either speed walking or slow jogging. and you're doing about 20 sets of interval training, this IMHO is too much, and 45 minutes is definitely too long...cardio interval training usually should take about 15-20 minutes, or up to 30 if 10 of those minutes are spent just walking with no intensity to get your heart rate back down.

Hi, droors.

I couldn't lift for 2 weeks, reason why I have done lots of cardio instead. 45 min high intensity might be too much of a good thing, you are right. I didn't run on the treadmill. I have a bad knee and all I do is fast walking.

I have eaten what I ate when lifting, which means 6 high protein meals a day.

I was not fat to begin with (5ft7, 140lbs) but I realize now that my muscles have less volume and tonicity than before, maybe b/c I haven't lifted for the last 15 days.

Thanks again for your answer.

Cheers.

CC

if you haven't lifted, especially during dieting, your muscle will breakdown. you need to weight train to maintain that muscle definitely. but it will come back easily in 2 weeks, muscle memory.

if you haven't lifted, especially during dieting, your muscle will breakdown. you need to weight train to maintain that muscle definitely. but it will come back easily in 2 weeks, muscle memory.

Thanks, droors. I have started lifting again today. I'll gradually increase the intensity of my workouts and I hope to be back at my previous level in two or three weeks.

Thanks, droors. I have started lifting again today. I'll gradually increase the intensity of my workouts and I hope to be back at my previous level in two or three weeks.
your muscles will not feel as full because you have not been working them out. they have not had the same stimulation and stuff surging through them as they did when they were getting worked out. when you get back in the gym, they will feel as full as they did before. no worries. :)

just curious to what type of cardio you guys do? Whats the best cardio without losing much muscle mass??
i personally don't do cardio anymore. i don't want to do the cardio because i'm trying to preserve all the muscle mass that i can get. the way i lose my bodyfat is from dieting. when you have strict diets with one cheat day, it's good to change your diet so your body doesn't get used to them. i personally rotate my carbs so my body doesn't get used to the diet.:yeah

I'll only do 30 minutes sessions from now on.

I have another question. I read on another board that cardio should be done right after a lifting session in order to burn fat. Is this true or not? Also, a session should not exceed 30 minutes (preferably 20 minutes).

I'll only do 30 minutes sessions from now on.

I have another question. I read on another board that cardio should be done right after a lifting session in order to burn fat. Is this true or not? Also, a session should not exceed 30 minutes (preferably 20 minutes).
hormones are secreted whether you do anaerobic or aerobic exercises. you don't need any hormones for cardio, so why do it first? you should do the anaerobic exercises first, then do the cardio. also, your body will by then have used the glucose and tapped the glycogen storage. therefore, it would be a good time to go straight into burning fat. the only risk is that your muscles could tap into other muscles for nitrogen. the best time to do cardio is in the morning. during sleep, your body also taps glucose levels and glycogen storage. this is the ideal time for cardio. although, doing any cardio does risk burning muscle if you do too much.

day 1: 4 mile run (slow pace)
day 2: off
day 3: mountain bike for 1-2 hours or stationary bike
day 4: off
day 5: swim for 45 minutes any stroke continuous
day 6: cross-country run 20 minutes out/20 minutes back
day 7: off

This workout isn't for bulking though. It's for general conditioning and for shedding some unwanted pounds about 12 weeks out from an event/contest. To get really ripped, I'll do cardio for at least 30 mins a day and eat really clean. starting 5 weeks out from the event. These are pretty good guidelines if you aren't looking to get too bulky and just want to grow and stay fit at the same time. It's a lot easier to shed unwanted fat and waterweight while growing at the same time if you know what you are doing. the mirror doesn't lie. If you are burning up too much muscle mass, cut back on the cardio. It works for me and I stay somewhat ripped for most of the year without losing muscle.. The trick is figuring out your body, and figuring out how you can do it. Give it a few months at least. Changes don't take place over night.

http://www.vlp.on.ca/images/Keto_Text.pdf

this book is great for "natural" bb's. the information comes from very reputable people. it's a long read, but the chapters are clearly marked (in regards to bb's)

your caloric intake will help (if correct) your body from chewing up muscle. unfortunately, your body will give up muscle before fat and (being natural) you aren't using any kind of sythetic hormones.

keep your protein intake high (2gms per lb. of lean mass) this will help some.

I'm gonna read that, thank you, QOD!

I just read an interesting study on cardio.

Researchers in Asia investigated the ffects of a cardio-only training program cs. a combined cardio/resistance-training program on abdominal fat in women.
In the study, female subjects were separated into 3 groups:
1) a control group
2) a cardio-only training group
3) a combined cardio/resistance-training group

The cardio-only group did 60 min of cardio a day, 6 days a week, at an intensity of 60 to 70 percent of max. heart rate. The combined training group did 3 days of resistance training (monday, wednesday and friday) and 3 days of cardio (tuesday, thursday and saturday).

At the end of the study, subcutaneous and visceral abdominal fat volume decreased more in the combined training group than just cardio training alone

cupcake: i dont know about the cardio right after weight training, ive read a lot of posts on www.anabolex.com saying that cardio should be done as far apart as possible from the cardio workout. reasons for this i dont know but im guessing that doing a cardio session and weight training is too much stress and raises cortisol. the way i do it is weight training in the morning and then cardio at night...but i eat a good meal after the cardio is done.

Can anyone confirm that, guys? Is doing cardio after a weight session bad for me?

Can anyone confirm that, guys? Is doing cardio after a weight session bad for me?
it depends. think about it for a second. what happens when you do an anaerobic workout? you are damaging your muscle fibers so that later enzymes will be secreted to repair the muscles. thus, they repair to become larger, fuller, or more dense. you also use hormones during the anaerobic workout. your muscles will need glucose and glycogen for atp production. later, your muscles will want nitrogen. so, after your workout, if you don't get protein (amino acids are the building blocks of protein, and nitrogen is the molecule that makes an amino acid what it is.) in you before you do your cardio, then yes, it will be somewhat counter-productive. during your cardio, your muscles will burn other muscle for the nitrogen.

on the flipside, if you get protein after your workout and do the cardio, the answer is no. your body will use the available protein and nitrogen for your muscles that are in need. it's not the workouts that you really need to focus on, it's what your body needs is the important issue.

hope this helps and answers your questions.

I have always a Whey Protein shake immediately after my weight session. Is that enough, Bio?

i would say to have around 30 grams of protein and 30-60 grams of carbs after a workout. depending on how sensitive you are to carbs will determine how much of carbs and what type of carbs would work best for you.

When i was competing naturally in BB, I did cardio in the AM upon rising and did my weights afternoon some time then did cardio again PM after last real meal. Took a protein shake with Olive oil after last cardio session. cardio only lasted 20-25mins, HIT intervals.

When i was competing naturally in BB, I did cardio in the AM upon rising and did my weights afternoon some time then did cardio again PM after last real meal. Took a protein shake with Olive oil after last cardio session. cardio only lasted 20-25mins, HIT intervals.

I can't split my routine into two sessions like you did, unfortunately. I have to work too.

Could you please describe your cardio session (HIT intervals)?

Thanks.

To Bio: I bloat when I eat carbs. I have tried digestive enzymes but they don't help.

To Bio: I bloat when I eat carbs. I have tried digestive enzymes but they don't help.

what type of carbs? how many of them? what was the food? how much bloating? little or a lot, etc?

what type of carbs? how many of them? what was the food? how much bloating? little or a lot, etc?

2 slices of wholemeal bread with tuna. I know tuna is not to blame b/c when I eat it alone, I don't have that kind of problem. It looks like my stomach swells when I eat carbs with proteins. Maybe it's that combination that's the culprit after all.

2 slices of wholemeal bread with tuna. I know tuna is not to blame b/c when I eat it alone, I don't have that kind of problem. It looks like my stomach swells when I eat carbs with proteins. Maybe it's that combination that's the culprit after all.

try eating the wholemeal bread alone. did you add a new type of sauce or mayo or sumthin? you could try a different type of carb like oatmeal or ricecakes.

try eating the wholemeal bread alone. did you add a new type of sauce or mayo or sumthin? you could try a different type of carb like oatmeal or ricecakes.

OK, I'll do that. I ate my tuna with mustard. No bloating when I eat oatmeal or ricecakes.

i think u should not be concerned with muscle loss so long you eat good

I don't agree with everything that is being said here. Doing cardio after your weight training is a very good time to do it! And you don't have to have carbs and a protein shake after your weights if you are going to do cardio? Just jump on and get it done. Your glycogen stores should be depleted or just about depleted before your cardio. Then just keep your HR in the 60-65%range and you will be burning fat. I wouldn't suggest doing HIT cardio after your weight. I would do that on a seperate day or only once in a while. Bottom line is 20 minutes or so of cardio after your weights is ideal!

Lex

And Cupcake wheat bread isn't the best source of sustainable good slow digesting carbs. And I bet your bread is not even WHOLE grain. Most aren't unless you know what to buy. I am not saying it is your fault but you would be suprised if you look closer at the label. Unless it says "Whole Wheat" or something WHOLE in the first ingrediant it is most likely crap.

Use some sweet potatoes or brown rice. They will suit you better...

You should never do HIT cardio on your training days. Thats only gonna cause your cortisol levels to skyrocket which will cause your body to store fat and burn muscle. HIT is anaerobic and should be treated as such. Also they shouldnt be done more than 3X week b/c anymore is a great way to injure oneself or start overtraining which sounds like what is happeneing with CC.

Gotta bump Lex, that bread is processed which is the culprit for the bloat. Bread is bad unless your getting some 7 grain bread or something and even then i sta away.

Funny thing is that I'm now looking forward to doing cardio ED. I'm just gonna do less from now on, f.ex. 20 min slow cardio at the end of my weight session. Is that OK?

I haven't found sweet potatoes here yet! I'm still looking.