A buddy of mine is goin' through some shit with a girl sayin' he's a daddy!

I have to ask.....If it's 2 people's mutual decision to have sex, why is it solely the woman's decision to have the child?

I think it is a travesty that 2 people can mutually agree to have a one night fling and then a woman can make the decision to have the child when she finds out she's pregnant and there's not a goddam thing the man can do about it, except get ready to change his entire life!!

If a man wants sex and the woman doesn't and he makes the decision for her, against her will, it's called rape and a punishable crime.
If a man does not want a child and the woman makes the decision for him, against his will, it's called "step up and be a man. You played, now you pay"! How fuckin' wrong is that??!!

I don't know man but i think if your gonna mess around atleast protect yourself from the chances of having a kid. If its a one night fling then wear a condom and take your chances. The fact is once you get started in on something like that you have committed to the chance that you may have a kid no matter how far in the back of your head it is at the time. We all know we don't think about this stuff in the heat of the moment...

I don't know if your boy was wearing a hat or not at the time but if he was that is just bad luck. Or maybe make sure it wasnt someone elses kid from the start if this chic is a one night fling and she is a hoe you never know who's it is!

Its just the way it is, by a man in a mutual agreement to have sex then it is inherent that if the chic gets pregnant its his responsibility by doing the actual act. Atleast thats what I think. But opinions are like assholes.

Tell him to make sure the kid is his if this was a one night thing.

But on a different note i think this relates more to an abortion issue, which i really don't believe in unless a woman was raped and gets pregnant. And thats the only time i think you should do it. If your gonna mess around atleast be able to cover your ass...its just like the iron game, if you are gonna mess with gear you know their are stuff that comes along with it that you may not like, same thing with sex.

Like I said just an opinion and not meant as a flame or anything like that at all.:(


5th

I hear ya buff.

Men get the short end of the stick when it comes to sex and children. There is no way to get around it, your damned if you do and your damned if you dont. Catch 22 all the way!

NEVER HAVE SEX WITHOUT A CONDOM! Your buddy should have been smart and protected himself. His best bet is to be undersatanding and not show any reaction to her words. Keep a level head and think before he responds. If she senses that he wants to get rid of it...she will keep it just to fuck him over.

If he suspects that it is not his and she ends up keeping it then he would benifit from being the nice guy and running a paternity test once the baby is born. It will be much easier to get the test done if she is not pissed off with him.

Just suggestion bro. Hope everything works out with your buddy.

well, I shoulda included more.
I guess the condom broke. He didn't think much of it, since she never said shit and it was a 1 night thing. Then outta the blue(like 1 year later), he gets a call that says she already had the kid and she wants to establish paternity!

I dunno...screams sac chaser to me all the way!

Make her have a test, it may not be his. As for the rest of the post, I really don't see anywhere you are coming from. If you choose to have sex you know the risks and it is your obligation to take responsibility for your own actions. Abortion is MURDER and those that pertake in this activity have a issue with god. I am a man and even if I had a one night stand with a nasty slut, why would I want to slaughter my own flesh and blood. I beleive that everyone has the right to live there life how ever they want, such as drugs, sex, ect as long as you are only hurting yourself and abortion is definatley not just hurting yourself.

I don't think he was asking for your religous views on abortion. Why don't you keep that shit to yourself :2fingers

Hellbent, he was stating that men get the short end of the stick, which in many cases I absolutely agree, such as allomony(spelledthatwrong)some cases of childsupport ect. Peaple must take responsibilty for there actions, I will always stand by that, and I will always speak my mind. i will never stab you in the back only from the front. If you don't like my comment, tuff shit! Simply said GO FUCK YOURSELF.

I must be odd because I can see exactly where buff is coming from. I feel the same way. Now if she was still pregnant I would just have told her .......you know this kid is going to be a bastard because I will have nothing to do with him/her, especially with a 1 night stand. Sure they can garnish my wages for child support but other than that that kid wont even get a birthday card. But since the child is born already and she hasnt said a word for a year now,I would definatly have a test done. Something sounds shady. And if she refuses to have the test done......I think you have your answer.

LOL , I like that Dewalt. Ofcourse I believe you can leave a comment about anything. Out of respect for the various religions and opinions on abortion, I keep those views to myself. All I was saying is I don't think Buff wanted your opinion on abortion, I know I didn't care what you think about abortion. We can continue this discussion on the flame board if you want, and I will give you my views. See ya later,

Hugs & Kisses,

Hellbent

Lets all keep in mind that Buff asked a question, and made a statment about men being disadvantaged to the final decisions on whether or not to keep the baby. The chick could have aborted it even though he wanted it. Same scenario that buff stated, applies.

Let's not start telling eachother to fuck off, because we have a different moral view. Accept eachother's opinions as just that. You don't have to agree 100% on anything to have a civil discussion.

Now, let me add something for those of you to think about. Not to tell you off or anything else. A buddy of mine was with a women who he loved. They were having some rocky spots in their relationship. She was on birth control pills. She ended up getting pregnant. SHE brought up the idea of abortion. SHE blamed him for her getting pregnant. She told him he ruined her life. Time passed and they couldn't work it out and agree. She continued to blame him for everything and take no responsibility for her own actions. My bud knew deep down it was wrong, but gave credence to her thoughts and at times even encouraged her to go ahead with aborting the child before it developed. He loved this girl and felt horrible that he "ruined her life". All rationale feelings to have. She ended up aborting the pregnancy, then she turned around and blamed him for the abortion as well. Either way he lost. Maybe she would have had the abortion, maybe she wouldn't. He'll never know if he could have really stopped it, or if he made it happen. My bud has never forgiven himself for not trying to stop it. For going along with it. Maybe the child would have had a good life, maybe not. No one will know. After having many conversations with my friend, I will say that NO ONE can say with 100% certainety, what they will do, or how they will feel if they abort a pregnancy.

Is it wrong to abort a pregnancy occuring from consensual sex? Maybe, that is each person's own call to make. Is it worse to abort an unwanted pregnancy in the first weeks before the fetus really develops, as apposed to bring another child into this world that won't be properly cared for? Again, that is each persons own call to make. Maybe the child will grow up to be a terrorist, a mass murderer, a serial rapist, and hurt or murder many people. Maybe they will be the person responsible for curing cancer. No One knows.

So, please, voice your opinions, but accept others. You cannot learn or grow unless you are subjected to different views.

Very well said t-spine.........I knew I liked you for a reason

Originally posted by buffdiggity
well, I shoulda included more.
I guess the condom broke. He didn't think much of it, since she never said shit and it was a 1 night thing. Then outta the blue(like 1 year later), he gets a call that says she already had the kid and she wants to establish paternity!

I dunno...screams sac chaser to me all the way!

Well thats an important piece of info...I think he should tell her to fuck off if he just hit it that one night...wtf!>>! she waits a year?!?!

What happenned was she probably did the same thing to all the other guys she did last year...they all said go to hell...and your bud was next on the list of victims...NO WAY...unless she has genetic proof or something like that...oh thats some horseshit..what a bitch! I see in that case we do get the short end...that little piece of info changes the whole situation.

5th

If your buddy is the father he owes it to the kid to do the right thing..

As a friend of mine once said, one dick, no vote. Hey bro, you know how the game works. If you do the deed, then sometimes you have to pay the bill. Few things piss me off more than a dead beat dad.

If your friend got the girl pregnant, then he is in for at least 18 years of paying for it. Yeah, I would definitely suggest the paternaty test, but if the kid is his, then he needs to help take responsibility for it. That means child support at a minimum.

same thing happened to me when I was a little younger in the army. Got a phone call 7 months later. A long story short - I got a test done and it turned out not to be mine.


I hear you buff. It really sucks. Hope everything turns out well for him.

Abstinence is the only safe way to prevent such situations. Remember fellas, "true love waits".

I'm curious....do you guys give out your phone numbers, last names....ss # to a one night stand? how the hell did she find your friend after a year? keeping tabs on him?

Doesn't sound right....if she knew wher and how to contact him a year later....why not contact him months ago when she found out she was pregnant.......she has to prove paternity doesn't she? thank gawd for DNA testing......tell your friend to relax...wait for he results of the test......it's all he can really do.....

Men should be just as responsible for birth control as women.....never trust that she's on the pill....double bag it if necessary........pull out........but ALWAYS WEAR A CONDOM.......

Yes men are rather helpless when it comes to the decision of having a child...they are at the woman's mercy......and yes it's downright low life to try to trap a guy w/ a baby.....I'm sure very litle thought goes into this decison as far as what happens and how the mother's life change once she's a single mother.....yes adorable little babies who keep you up all night....shit and spit up all over you.....and yet are soo innocently sweet, grow up and the headahes get bigger......having a child is not something to be taken lighty.....on a whim......or a chance taken cause you just want to get laid......

btw....the amount of $ a guy pays for child support....do you really think it covers all the expenses of a child? it doesn't even come close.....unfair to a single guy who didn't want to have a child and took the necessary precautions yes......anyone else..NO

*smile*

Cutie

I agree with most of what Cutie said, and the others. If it is his he should do the right thing. Now with that said, and having had this happen to me not once but twice, there are some things he should know. 1st off he is not responsible for anything until paternity is proven, and that little DNA test everyone talks about is very accurate but also very expensive. THE COST IS HERS NOT HIS!!!! She's the one making the accusation and thats all it is at this time. Tell him not to be swayed by comments like "well he looks just like you", I know someone that did just that. 7 years later he found out he wasn't even the father, the guy was crushed because he loved that boy like his own and now he doesn't even get to see the kid anymore. Let her pay for the test. 2nd, yes they did do the deed and he is responsible for paying his share if its his, but I also agree it sucks we men get absolutely no say if the child is kept or not, but thats America for you no one ever said the laws were fair. In most cases we have been reduced to nothing more than financially supportive sperm donors, but thats the way it goes and no amount of bitching is going to change that. Some laws are being reviewed right now, but they won't be changed for a while even if they do. He does have rights when it comes to custody to. There is even something called Joint Physical Custody where the child literally gets shared by both parents in regards to where it lives, financially and all other decisions. THAT CAN MEAN NO CHILD SUPPORT AT ALL FOR THE MOTHER. Before he goes throwing a party he should know that what Cutie said is right on the money, children cost ALOT of money. Its not all video games and Disney channel. Most cases where child support is granted to a single mother help but dont cover completely the cost of raising the child. Yes there are cases where the laws just plain fuck the father, a friend of mine is paying over $4,000/month in child support for 1 child. Its clear it doesn't cost that much to raise that 1 child because the mother doesn't even work, she sits home on her fat ass all day and takes every chance to rub his nose in it, but that is a exception not the rule. There should be a cap on child support and mothers should HAVE to work if they give birth, motherhood should not be considered a form of winning the lottery. We could go on about this all day, both sides think their not getting what they should out of this, but in the end isn't whats right for the child what should be of the most concern???

I'd tell your friend if its his own up to it. Yes he should have had some say in whether or not to bring a child into the world, especially if it was concieved from a one night stand, but he wasn't given that courtesy and there's nothing he can do about it now. Tell him to fight for joint custody and then he'll have the best gift a man can get, a child of his own.

ok, well last night I had a very long convo with my boy, because he had to go to take the DNA test today.
Here's the story.
He gets loaded at a club, takes this chick home. He remembers talking with her for a bit and he specifically gave her a fake name and never gave her his old phone number. He said she was one of those girls who incessantly babbled and he he just said fuck it, when he figured he wasn't gettin' any and went to bed and told her she could crash on the couch or the spare bedroom.
Apparently, next thing he knows, this chick is wakin' him up....slobbin' his knob.
So, he takes care of business. Drops her off on his way to work the next day and that was that. I guess she called so much, that he changed his number(now I know why he did....fucker never told me that!) to unlisted and and a new number. Well, that prolly explains how she got his real name and addy. However, what I do not understand, is why in the fuck this chick(oh, by the way, she is like 21 and has nothing and my boy is a very very eligible bachelor, with a fat crib and a great job.)
So anyway....why did this chick not contact him right away and tell him she was pregnant?! She would have known within a month! Instead she apparently called his cell phone number and leaves a message saying she's 5 months pregnant and he's the only one she was with, so please contact her! he played it off like, "yeah right, like I'm contacting her"
So, he doesn't here shit until this past summer and by now she's had the kid and it's over 1.5 yrs. old and the notice was from the prosecuter's office saying they need to establish paternity.

Are you kidding me? Ok, my bitches are these:
1. why did she wait 5 months to tell him she was pregnant(I think she obviously didn't know who the father is)

2. If she knew so much about him, why didn't she just show up on his doorstep when she was 1 or 2 months along.

3. The prosecuter took over the case cause she's on welfare. Where in the world does some 21 yr. old girl on welfare get off bringing a child into the world?

4. My boy wears a jimmy, does his part right?! Now, here's the kicker. His attorney asked if she ever informed him that she was not on birth control or could get pregnant because she was ovulating. He said no. In fact, he said, that she was trying to get up on his dick before he had a sock on and he pushed her off and grabbed one.

Now, maybe just maybe don't you think this sounds like this chick is obviously not the most moral person and when she goes to my buddies house, obviously she was impressed at how nice a crib he has and can deduce that he obviously makes some duckets. He goes to bed and she has all sorts of time to think about it....hmmm, let's see....he's rich, he's good looking, I'm young, have nothing, I'd like a baby, I'm ovulating right now, he'd be a great catch, if nothing else, I can get mad support money from him.....I think I'll go fuck him now, even though that was what he brought me home to do and I obviously prolonged it by yapping for a few hours!

I don't know about you guys, but ole buff D has been around the block enough to know a money grubbin' sac chaser when he hears one.

this is what I'm talking about. This guy wanted nothing but a good fuck from her and took the precautions. He didn't want a kid and knowing my friend(because my answer would be the same), if he knew the chick wasn't on bc and was ovulating, I think he'd have passed...I would have.
So, to end my rant. I personally would like to see a situation like this handled as negligence. If he had aids and didn't tell her and slept with her, they'd sure as hell nail his ass. Well, now you have a woman who knows she was ovulating and knew she wasn't on bc(and don't tell me she didn't....that would be like not knowing when you have to piss!) and she knowingly with held some crucial information from him...which he could have made a decision, had he known! So why hold him accountable for anything. why should he have to support some kid financially, just cuz some young girl decided "Gee, I'd like a baby"....when you know goddam well, she didn't have a clue what a huge decision that really is!

I'd tell your friend if its his own up to it. Yes he should have had some say in whether or not to bring a child into the world, especially if it was concieved from a one night stand, but he wasn't given that courtesy and there's nothing he can do about it now. Tell him to fight for joint custody and then he'll have the best gift a man can get, a child of his own. [/B][/QUOTE]


I disagree. I've watched my brother go through this, which is why I'm so pasionate about it. These chicks are carbon copies of each other. They're white trash ho's with no morals, self esteem, values, ethics who think nothing of fuckin' many many many men over the course of their life.
My brother supports his son and is one of those exceptions to the rule. He pays almost $2K a month in support and his one night stand now has 6 kids with 4 different fathers and hasn't worked one day in 9 years, yet she has a 5 bedroom house, 3 cars(2 are 1999 or newer) and leads a pretty comfortable life with no husband, no job and a live in boyfriend who works at a fuckin' carwash!!!! These are the women I have a HUGE boner with! They're trash and they are looking at having a precious little child as a way of life, not a gift. According to my boy, this girl is the fuckin' exact same. In fact, she's already knocked up again.
I'd rather go on the lamb than pay some dirt bag bitch's way through life, while I bust my ass climbing the ladder in life and she sits home and does nothing except wait for that support check.....what's fair about that!

Nothing turns my stomach more than a gold digging whore. If you do the deed i am all about joint custody, or me having the child. Than i decide what money goes were. Even if the mother is a crazy slut who set you up, it is not that childs fault. I have seen to many men blame there children for actions from there mothers, and it is a shame.

I feel for the guy somewhat. Sounds like his intention was in the right place by using protection and all, but the risk is still there. You ask me, sounds like someone may be being played a fool. Regardless, if it tests to be his, the problem is between him and the mother, not him and the child. He must do his part if he can. My girlfriend of 4 years has an 8 year old daughter. Im housing, feeding, and raising the kid for her real dad. He doesnt pay child support(has money), but he is right there at my door ready to screw everything up twice a month. Im not doing it for him, but the little girl. Its sad really. I wish your bro the best of luck, but what is right, is right, no matter how we got there.

could this be the beginning of the Men's Liberation Movement....?
maybe a part 2) to the Equal Rights Ammendment....?

YYZ

Buff- What do you disagree with in what I said, I was agreeing with you and your feelings on this. All I was trying to say is he isn't going to change the law no matter how fucked up it is. I agree whole heartedly with you on this, the whole situation sucks bigtime. Personally I think it should be a law that once a women gets pregnant no decision can be made as to whether the child will be brought into the world or not unless both parents agree on it. But thats not the way it is in this country. Sorry if you misunderstood me on this but I agree with you, maybe I didn't make that part clear. That paragraph was my attempt to put some kind of positive spin on a bad situation, thats all.

Well I totally agree with everything Buff posted and it is total bullshit what these supposed "laws" can do to a man just for fathering a child. I saw first hand how it ruined one of my closest friends life and I still get pissed everytime I think about it. He was going out with this girl for over a year and lets just say she kinda got around before they met....and while they were going out the whole time! Basically she was fucking around on him with a few guys at different times throughout their relationship and he eventually found out about it. Instead of just totally dumping her like he should have right on the spot, he played her game by cheating on her and trying to get back at her. They went back and forth for about 4 more months trying to out do the other while the whole time still having sex with each other. My conscience is clear because I warned him time and time again to get out of that situation before it was too late. She was only the 3rd girl he'd ever had sex with and obviously the best he'd had at doing it (she got LOTS of practice) so he never listened. He was pussy whipped basically! She was on the pill or so he thought the whole time so he never wore a condom and one day the inevitable finally happened. The funny thing was it was when he decided to move to Charlotte - he was tired of being laid off in Western PA with a degree and decided to go where the work is. He moved to NC, got a great job, met a nice girl, bought a Toyota Landcruiser - his life couldn't hae been better! Then after about a year after he left he got a letter from PA domestice relations and thats when his life changed. Even though that girl fucked just about every guy in town that had a dick, it turned out to be his. She trapped him no doubt about it! Here's where the story turns because she didn't even have custody of the child....Her mother did. She turned into a crackhead so her mother took the kid off of her. Some would say that was nice of her mom but thats because you don't know her mom! Her mom was a huge whore all her life as well - 5 kids to 3 different guys despite never being married! Talk about trash breeding trash....So her mom was suing him for support and they had just passed a law in PA that anytime a 3rd party assumes custody of the child then support would be determined by a percentage of both natural parents incomes....He was making somewhere in the 40's but her loser ass was on welfare so he got shafted like I've never seen! It turned out he had to pay something like $1300 a month - more than half his income for one child! It basically ruined his life! He couldn't afford to live anymore, he had to get rid of the SUV, move out of his townhouse and eventually leave Charlotte and move back to PA. He told me he came close to suicide and everything cause he couldn't deal with what was happening to him. He ended up moving back with his parents and pretty much just gave up. In a way I don't blame him cause why bust your ass and make them rich when probably not even 1/4 of that money is even going towards the child in the first place! This all started about 2 years ago so now he's laid off and collecting unemployment. After the support I think he told me he gets $45 a week to himself and his checks will run out in January of next year. How the hell is a person supposed to live on that? I saw him last Christmas when I was home for the holidays and seeing him almost brought a tear to my eyes. I almost didn't even recognize him....He's only 28 years old but looked like he was 58! I couldn't believe how grey his hair got and he really looked terrible...He looked defeated and tired. He fucking lost his will to live! I felt guilty even hanging out with him cause there I am all juiced up, with a pocket full of cash, looking better than I ever did when I lived there before home for the holidays from Atlanta - I can only imagine what was going through his mind. He lost a bunch of friends up there too cause they all think hes a quitter and they say he's just too depressing to be around and that they have their own problems. I say put yourself in his shoes - it's like one day you have it all and then you get your paycheck and its a 1/4 of what it was before! And that was last year so I almost don't even want to see him when I come back there but I know he's looking forward to seeing me cause I talked to him a few weeks ago. I just feel so bad for him but theres nothing anyone can do. So how the fuck can this be legal? How the hell is this right? How the fuck can these "laws" let trash like this ruin another human beings life the way this has? We're literally talking about white trash that have been using support checks as a form of income for decades! You know I'm sure theres plenty of cases where there are good mothers who don't get enough or even anything at all from their men but this is totally the opposite! And he has 15 more years of this shit to look forward too? I told him to leave the fucking country and go somewhere where they can't find him. I'm not sure what he's gonna do but I think he's trying to drink himself to death. This has definitely opened my eyes about many things when it comes to sex and women and I hate to lump them all into the same category cause theres plenty of good ones out there but theres also plenty of the other kind too and thats is plain fucking scary especially since they hold all the cards if they get pregnant. Sorry for the long post but its like this - if this post can save at least 1 ironbro or anyone else for that matter from going through this or something similar then it was worth it IMO. It's totally changed one of the nicest guys I've ever mets life forever......And in some ways...mine too!

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell
Abstinence is the only safe way to prevent such situations. Remember fellas, "true love waits".


chest speaks the truth once again

I hear all the stories of where the system does harm, but I honestly believe that it does good in more cases..... I'm not saying it shouldn't be tweaked....

Drjay, that is another shitty deal man! I feel bad for your friend. I could be wrong, but I would think that if the mother of the child doesn't have custody, and your bro is a fine upstanding citizen, he could have fought and won custody, and raised his child himself. I assume he probably didn't want to, and blamed the child. I could be wrong, so don't blast me. That is what I would have tried to do....

Alot of these stories seem to involve "white trash whores" as the women with control.... Maybe they aren't as stupid as everyone thinks, eh? Maybe the stupid part is screwing around with some skank. I don't want to sound preachy, but it's one thing to be in a loving relationship and created a pregnancy. It is quite another to go whoring..... Personally, the idea of some skank that will sleep with me, when she doesn't even have a clue who I am, does not attract me. As a matter of fact, it sickens me.... How many sloppy seconds are there? Now before anyone blasts me.... Let me say if you like picking up chicks and having one night stands, and that excites you and is your thing, more power to you... enjoy. Just know the consequences are there and people need to be accountable and responsible for their actions.

On a final note: A woman on the pill is not 100% protected from pregnancy, not to mention the risk of STD's. If the pill isn't the right one, or isn't taken at the same time everyday, it's effectiveness becomes reduced. I also wonder how winny, anavar, primo, nolva etc. would affect the pill's efficacy. Personally, my bro's wife just got pregnant a second time, and again she was on the pill.... So keep that in mind... these chicks that tell you they are on, maybe. They CAN get pregnant even though they are on. Also, if you don't trust them enough to tell you the truth about the form of birth control, maybe that should play into your decision as to whether or not you want to take the chance to be bound to them for life, via a child.

The Birth Control pills that are on the market now are so low dosed...that missing 1 pill can mean the difference between rocking the bed or rocking the cradle.....


DrJay I assume your friend doens't want custody of the child...he'd prob get it over the grandmother...and I'm in the wrong state....cause 1 child is between 11 and 17% of gross base pay....and your friend should go get himself a decent damn lawyer....something does not sound right.......

I agree w/ you guys...these women who trap guys w/ kids and live off of them are low lifes.....there are plenty of programs out there that provide child care services for all income's that there is no reason a single mom needs to sit on her ass .....NYC finally got smart....now they make welfare recipents work for them....in order to get their checks....

children are not bargaining chips....women like this don't deserve the honor of giving birth

hope all works out for your friend......

*smile*

Cutie

Originally posted by CutieFace
NYC finally got smart....now they make welfare recipents work for them....in order to get their checks....

*smile*

Cutie

no.. it's not working.. just getting some good press.. there are still over 700,000 welfare cases in nyc.. they were given 5 years to get off of welfare, the 5 years is up for many of them and they still don't have a job.. So Human Resource Agency is funding jobs for them in other agencies..

"NEW YORK TIMES"

November 2, 2001
Quietly, the City Is Offering Jobs to Some Facing Welfare Limits

By NINA BERNSTEIN

The Giuliani administration is quietly offering thousands of city jobs paying more than $9 an hour to welfare recipients who are reaching their five-year limit on federal cash assistance just as the city's economy sinks into recession.

The workers' hourly wages — well above minimum wage — are to be paid out of New York State's $1.5 billion annual welfare windfall, money allocated by the federal government at the same level since 1995, but unspent because the welfare rolls have shrunk by almost half, state officials said. Many of the jobs are as seasonal laborers in the city's Parks Department, where city and union officials said they were prepared to absorb as many workers as the city's Human Resources Administration sends.

As 32,800 New York City families confront their five-year federal welfare limit on Dec. 2, more than 3,000 additional recipients who faced the same deadline are already working in the parks, officials from the parks workers' union said.

Job offers apparently have been made to many of the thousands of recipients called in by the Human Resources Administration in the past month.

"I can confirm that they are offering those jobs for the families that are coming up against those time limits," said John B. Madden, a spokesman for the State Office of Temporary and Disability Assistance. "The state is very supportive of the city's efforts. But who and how many are getting the job offers — that's really up to H.R.A." He added, "I can't give you the numbers because I don't have the numbers."

Neither the Human Resources Administration nor the mayor's office returned calls seeking information about the program. Lawyers who have won federal court injunctions against some of the city's recent welfare practices said they had been frustrated in efforts to learn details of the job offers and conditions presented to recipients.

But Mark Rosenthal, president of the union local that represents seasonal parks workers, said 3,100 former welfare recipients are already in jobs that last 11 months and 2 weeks and can be renewed. They are doing work like cleaning parks and supervising playgrounds, he said, and most began in March in a test of the project. At least 1,000 more new hires are expected over the next four weeks.

"As many as they send, we'll take," he said. "We could have 10,000 very easy." He added, "You can have 20,000 in the park — we had that in the W.P.A.," referring to a public works program of the New Deal.

Under state law, recipients who run out their federal welfare clock are still eligible to apply for a state aid program known as Safety Net Assistance, financed without federal money. But any able-bodied person who refuses a specific job without good cause is to be denied that aid.

The financial advantages to the city are evident. After Dec. 2, aid to the 32,800 city recipients who run out the federal welfare clock would have to come from the state and city treasuries, rather than from the federal welfare block grant created when welfare legislation was overhauled in 1996. And at a time when city agencies are facing steep budget cuts and a hiring freeze, a corps of temporary, federally-subsidized workers could take up the slack.

But the federal grant is up for reauthorization next September, and the surplus could melt away if Congress reduces the grant, or if the welfare rolls climb in a recession, cautioned Douglas Turetsky, spokesman for the city's Independent Budget Office.

drjay73, I am sorry to hear how your friend turned out, but it is his own fault. She sounds like a real piece of work, but nobody forced him to stay in that relationship and continue to have sex just to play her game. He played, and got burnt. As for the whole custody issue, there is no way any court in america will give the child to the grandmother if the father is stable period, he did not want the child. It is a sad situation, but he put himself there. Let us not forget that there is much more to doing your duty than throwing down money for child support. A real father and a real person will be involved in that childs life, forever. This is a huge sociological problem that leads to so many other social scurges, such as drug abuse, mental problems ect. It absolutely repulses me that many fathers don't want to own up to there responsibility of being a parent. Regardless if he was trapped or tricked, he did the dead, and must own up to his responsibility, the child is still innocent.

my fault TJ, I re-read your post and think I got it confused with Flex's.

Bottom line to all of this and my question, that I would love to stand in front of the Supreme court and ask....

It takes two people to make a baby right? If two people don't want a child than it should be two people who take their own precaution's each, for ensuring that doesn't happen as best they can, right? So, if something does happen, why is it only one person's decision?
I say at the very least the law should be amended to say, that if the woman decides she want's to have the child and the man does not, then fine, but she cannot expect any support from the man.

zeke.....the only reason chesty wont ever have to deal with issues such as this, is men cant get pregnant..... :devil

sorry, couldnt resist.

(even if he is right)